{"id":1308,"date":"2024-02-06T02:22:25","date_gmt":"2024-02-06T02:22:25","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/?p=1308"},"modified":"2025-11-04T18:30:32","modified_gmt":"2025-11-04T18:30:32","slug":"conversation-1-moral-distress-in-education","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/zuckersuck-effect-zse\/conversation-1-moral-distress-in-education\/","title":{"rendered":"Conversation #1: Moral Distress in Education: An interview with Dr. Lee Smith"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><em>By way of introduction&#8230;<\/em><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"h5p-iframe-wrapper\"><iframe id=\"h5p-iframe-24\" class=\"h5p-iframe\" data-content-id=\"24\" style=\"height:1px\" src=\"about:blank\" frameBorder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" title=\"Dr Smith Intro\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Welcome, everyone, to the latest &#8220;special&#8221; episode of the EnT! <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about the best way to present this kind of content&#8230; that is to say <em>interview-like<\/em>&#8230; but really, I see this more as a discussion than an interview <em>per se<\/em>&#8230; or more of a conversation, even, than a podcast as such&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So&#8230; beginning this month, we will be starting an occasional series of <em>Ed non-Tech (EnT)<\/em> conversations with other educators&#8230; &#8220;other&#8221; in this case meaning besides Doug and\/or myself&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And these are to be distinguished from EnT episodes, or EnT lectures&#8230;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Got it? Well&#8230; if you don&#8217;t, you will!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Please click below as per your preferences for our conversation with Dr. Lee Smith, PhD! Lee speaks with us about his recently-defended University of Alberta doctoral thesis <em>Tears at the Heart of Things: Moral Distress Among Principals of Canadian-Accredited Schools in China<\/em>!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The EnT Convo 1\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/GZxInCq52oQ?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Morality&#8230; relatively, speaking! #ednontech<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-audio\"><audio controls src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3\"><\/audio><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it rains video, it pours audio&#8230; #ednontech<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"451\" src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/giphy.gif\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1313\" style=\"width:841px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Questions, Comments, &amp; Notes<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"h5p-iframe-wrapper\"><iframe id=\"h5p-iframe-25\" class=\"h5p-iframe\" data-content-id=\"25\" style=\"height:1px\" src=\"about:blank\" frameBorder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" title=\"Dr Smith q&#039;s\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#f3b2ba\"><strong><em>Question: How did you decide to do this research?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#e66b6b\"><strong><em>Question: Describe moral fluidity and the role it plays in educational environments you have experienced?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#cc9ff7\"><strong><em>Question: What was the technology usage situation at the research sites and did this have any impact of your research?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#85c2e6\"><strong><em>Question: Regarding obligations to:<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#85c2e6\"><strong><em>&#8211; Context<br>&#8211; Curriculum<br>&#8211; Contract<br>&#8211; Self<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#85c2e6\"><strong><em>How do these 4 perspectives impact educators?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#a1f6d6\"><strong><em>Question: What suggestions do you have for educators who are experiencing morally distressing situations in their professional practice?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"400\" height=\"300\" src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/EzW7.gif\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1315\" style=\"width:839px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><em>Comments and Resources via Dr. Smith<\/em><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"h5p-iframe-wrapper\"><iframe id=\"h5p-iframe-26\" class=\"h5p-iframe\" data-content-id=\"26\" style=\"height:1px\" src=\"about:blank\" frameBorder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" title=\"Dr Smith final\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I guess the only things I might add in the notes are a few of the books I mentioned, the actual definition of moral distress (MD) I used in The Thing (because I forgot to do that before I started babbling), and a video for a song I adore because hey, music. You are the Everything by REM actually features in the Acknowledgements section of The Thing.<\/p>\n<cite>Dr. Lee Smith, via Google Docs<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/books\/2016\/mar\/08\/aeneid-book-vi-review-seamus-heaney-poetry-book-six\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em>The Aeneid<\/em> &#8211; Virgil &#8211; Seamus Heaney translator<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/madelinemiller.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Anything and everything by Madeline Miller<\/a><em> (The Song of Achilles<\/em>, <em>Circe<\/em>, <em>Galatea<\/em>)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"655\" height=\"348\" src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/a276_1_courseimage_655x348.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1317\" style=\"width:837px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/a276_1_courseimage_655x348.png 655w, https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/a276_1_courseimage_655x348-300x159.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 655px) 100vw, 655px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Making Sense of a Life\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/s7sskc1pi_k?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><em>&#8220;Famous Seamus&#8221;??<\/em> Whoda thunk it?? #ednontech<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Finally&#8230;<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you are interested in hearing more from Lee about this research, he discussed his work with Corey Haley on the <a href=\"https:\/\/intersectioneducation.com\/2023\/03\/21\/78-lee-smith-moral-distress-in-educational-leaders\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em>Intersection Education <\/em>podcast<\/a> last April!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"380\" src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/buster-keaton-cops-gif.gif\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1319\" style=\"width:837px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My definition of MD: For the purposes of my study, I employed Nathaniel\u2019s (2006) definition of moral distress, modified by me to refer to principals instead of nurses: \u201cmoral distress is a pain affecting the mind, the body, or relationships that results from a situation in which the [principal] is aware of a moral problem, acknowledges moral responsibility, and makes a moral judgement about the correct action, yet, as a result of real or perceived constraints, participates, either by act or omission, in a manner he or she perceives to be morally wrong\u201d (p. 421).<\/p>\n<cite>Lee, via Google Docs<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Nathaniel, A. K. (2006). Moral reckoning in nursing. <em>Western Journal of Nursing Research,<br>28(4)<\/em>, 419-438. https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1177\/0193945905284727<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"450\" height=\"338\" src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/1166105f4ef7598ac70c6d83f8227c58.gif\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1320\" style=\"width:843px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Word of the Convo<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#f8934b\">Heart<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Phrase of the Convo<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#f8934b\">Moral distress<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Question of the Convo<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background wp-block-paragraph\" style=\"background-color:#f8934b\">Being hindered from doing what one believes to be morally right has psychological, affective, and relational implications. How can educators identify and reduce the impacts of these situations?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"R.E.M. - You Are the Everything, Live at Wembley Arena 1989\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/IphY93Xrijs?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">All you hear is time stand still in travel<br>And feel such peace and absolute<br>The stillness still that doesn&#8217;t end<br>But slowly drifts into sleep #ednontech<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><em>Thanks to Lee, and to you, for joining us! We are already looking forward to next time!<\/em><\/h2>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3976\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1308-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3\">http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/?powerpress_pinw=1308-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"http:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"LeeSmithfinalaudio.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>By way of introduction&#8230; Welcome, everyone, to the latest &#8220;special&#8221; episode of the EnT! I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about the best way to present this kind of content&#8230; that is to say interview-like&#8230; but really, I see this more as a discussion than an interview per se&#8230; or more of a conversation, even, than&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":1310,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[41,45,46,42,47,43,40],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1308","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-ed-non-tech-conversations","category-educational-distress","category-international-education","category-leadership","category-morality","category-theses","category-zuckersuck-effect-zse"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1308","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1308"}],"version-history":[{"count":18,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1308\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2738,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1308\/revisions\/2738"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1310"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1308"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1308"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analogue-trope.ca\/podcast\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1308"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}